I just want to put up a disclaimer really quick before you all read the rest of this post.
This post on baptism is what I believe to be the truth. YOU don’t have to agree with me. That is ok. I will not argue this with anyone – I stand firm on what I believe. Feel free to post any comments you want… all are welcome. I know there are very many different beliefs due to the very many doctrines out there. I just happen to know this is the truth.
Now on to baptism :)
There were/are 7 baptisms in scripture and 3 baptisms for believers today.
7 Baptisms in scripture are:
- John’s baptism in water (Mt.3; Mk.1; Lk.3; 7:29-30; Jn. 1:31-33, 3:23-26; 10:40; Acts 1:5; 11:16; 19:3)
- Christ’s baptism in water (Jn. 3:22; 4:1-2)
- Baptism in suffering (1 Cor. 10:2)
- Christian baptism in water (Mt. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:38-41; 8:12-16, 36-38; 9:18; 10:47-48; 16:15, 33; 18:18; 19:5; 22:16; 1 Cor. 1:13-17; 1 Pet. 3:21)
- Baptism into Christ and into His body (Rom. 6:3-7; 1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12)
- Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Mt. 3:11, 14; 20:22-23; Mk. 1:8; 10:38-39; Lk. 3:16; Jn. 1:33; 7:37-39; Acts 1:5; 11:16; 19:2-3)
Now one thing I want to point out is in all of these verses, not one single baby/child was ever water baptized. Nor was this even spoke of. Jesus never even spoke of baptizing a baby or child. Ever.
3 Baptisms for believers are:
- Baptism into Christ (above) which is what happens at the time one gets saved. This is the baptism that saves the soul and brings the us into the body of Christ when we become born again (saved)
Eph. 4:5 - There is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism
1 Cor. 12:13 - Some of us are Jews, and some are Greeks. Some of us are slaves, and some are free. But we were all baptized into one body through one Spirit. And we were all made to share in the one Spirit.
Gal. 3:27 - You were all baptized into Christ, and so you were all clothed with Christ. This means that you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
- Water baptism after getting saved (scriptures are above)
Water baptism is an outward showing of an inward change. The heart has been changed. Born again. Saved.
Water baptism is not for salvation. It is because of salvation.
Mt. 3:11 - I baptize you with water to show that your hearts and lives have changed. This is the New Century version. The King James says, “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance”
This underlined word(s) is translated different ways. This is where the big controversy comes in with verses like these.
The Greek word here is: εἰς or eis – This is past tense & means “because of”. (The present tense is poi) This is translated: “because of” or “for” 140 times, “on” 58 times, and “upon” 25 times. It also appears in “for this same purpose” (Rom. 9:17; Col. 4:8), “for this cause” (Jn. 18:37; 1 Pet. 4:6), and “for this purpose” (Acts 26:16; 1 Jn. 3:8), “for that intent” (Acts 9:21)
So if we were to use one of these different words or phrases, we will see that water baptism is not FOR salvation. Water baptism is BECAUSE OF salvation. It is an outward show of an inward change of heart.
More on this topic will be at the very bottom.
- Holy Spirit baptism - The Baptism with the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues, according to Acts 2:4, is given to Believers who ask for it by faith. (Acts 2:4;10:44-46;19:1-7) This is the full power of the Holy Spirit. A portion of the power of the Holy Spirit is given at the time of salvation. Baptism in the Holy Spirit will anoint us and give us more power to demonstrate Christ and win people to Him, so that they can be saved. Acts 1:8 - “But when the Holy Spirit comes to you, you will receive power. You will be my witnesses—in Jerusalem, in all of Judea, in Samaria, and in every part of the world." The believer, being baptized in the Holy Spirit and anointed by Him will have more success in preaching & teaching the gospel, because the Holy Spirit is freer to work through him. After being saved, all believers should seek the Holy Spirit baptism.
Who Baptizes?
The Holy Spirit is the one who baptizes us into Christ (1 Cor. 12:13); Christ is the one who baptizes us in the Holy Spirit (Mt. 3:11; Jn. 1:31-33); and the minister is the one to baptize us into water physically (Mt. 28:19)
Now back onto the topic of water baptism.
I want to show some reasons why forgiveness of sins & salvation is NOT by water baptism.
- On all occasions confession of sins was necessary & happened before water baptism. (Mt. 3:8, 11; Mk. 1:5; Lk. 3:8-14)
- BELIEVERS were baptized only AFTER repentance and faith in Christ (Mt. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:28, 41; 8:12-13, 37; 16:14-15, 31-33; 18:8; 19:1-7) – and in some cases AFTER receiving the Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 9:17-18; 10:44-48)
- Jesus WHO KNEW NO SIN was water baptized.
He did this for two reasons:
To fulfill righteousness – Mt.3:15 The King James version reads: “And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.” The New Century version reads: “Jesus answered, "Let it be this way for now. We should do all things that are God's will." So John agreed to baptize Jesus.”
The second reason was so that Isreal would know who He was. Jn. 1:31 - Even I did not know who he was, although I came baptizing with water so that the people of Israel would know who he is."
- Water baptism is only an outward symbol of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. 1 Pet. 3:21 - and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
- Water baptism does not save you, faith in the cross of Christ saves you!
1 Cor. 1:13-18 -
Christ has been divided up into different groups! Did Paul die on the cross for you? No! Were you baptized in the name of Paul? No!14 I thank God I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius15 so that now no one can say you were baptized in my name.16 (I also baptized the family of Stephanas, but I do not remember that I baptized anyone else.)17 Christ did not send me to baptize people but to preach the Good News. And he sent me to preach the Good News without using words of human wisdom so that the cross of Christ would not lose its power. 18 The teaching about the cross is foolishness to those who are being lost, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
- Jesus forgave MANY sins WITHOUT water baptism.
(I don’t feel like copy & pasting all of the verses right now. But leave me a message if you would like them & I can send them to you.)
I just want to be clear on the most important thing in our lives. It is FAITH in the Cross of Christ that saves us. FAITH in His finished work on the Cross.
Eph. 2:8 - You have been saved by grace through believing. You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God.
Rom. 10:9 - If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and if you believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom. 3:24-25 - and all need to be made right with God by his grace, which is a free gift. They need to be made free from sin through Jesus Christ. 25 God sent him to die in our place to take away our sins. We receive forgiveness through faith in the blood of Jesus' death.
Read Romans 4:1-25
Romans 5:1-11 -
1 Since we have been made right with God by our faith, we have peace with God. This happened through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 who through our faith has brought us into that blessing of God's grace that we now enjoy. And we are happy because of the hope we have of sharing God's glory. 3 We also have joy with our troubles, because we know that these troubles produce patience.4 And patience produces character, and character produces hope.5 And this hope will never disappoint us, because God has poured out his love to fill our hearts. He gave us his love through the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to us.
6 When we were unable to help ourselves, at the right time, Christ died for us, although we were living against God. 7 Very few people will die to save the life of someone else. Although perhaps for a good person someone might possibly die.8 But God shows his great love for us in this way: Christ died for us while we were still sinners.
9 So through Christ we will surely be saved from God's anger, because we have been made right with God by the blood of Christ's death. 10 While we were God's enemies, he made us his friends through the death of his Son. Surely, now that we are his friends, he will save us through his Son's life. 11 And not only that, but now we are also very happy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we are now God's friends again.
Eph. 1:7 - In Christ (baptized into Christ, saved) we are set free by the blood of his death, and so we have forgiveness of sins. How rich is God's grace.
Acts 10:43 - All the prophets say it is true that all who believe in Jesus will be forgiven of their sins through Jesus' name.
Acts 10:38-39 - Brothers, understand what we are telling you: You can have forgiveness of your sins through Jesus. The law of Moses could not free you from your sins. But through Jesus everyone who believes is free from all sins.
1 Jn. 1:9 - But if we confess our sins, he will forgive our sins, because we can trust God to do what is right. He will cleanse us from all the wrongs we have done.
1 Cor. 1:18-21 –
FAITH IN THE CROSS OF CHRIST SAVES!!!!!!!
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Born Again in Baptism
One key Scripture reference to being "born again" or "regenerated" is John 3:5, where Jesus says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
This verse is so important that those who say baptism is just a symbol must deny that Jesus here refers to baptism. "Born again" Christians claim the "water" is the preached word of God.
But the early Christians uniformly identified this verse with baptism. Water baptism is the way, they said, that we are born again and receive new life—a fact that is supported elsewhere in Scripture (Romans 6:3–4; Colossians. 2:12–13; Titus 3:5).
No Church Father referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism.
"But the early Christians uniformly identified this verse with baptism"
It was the early CHURCH (not Christians) that identified this with baptism. That is the problem, the apostate church misinterpretation. It says in Eph. 5:26 - "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word"
"No Church Father referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism"
Again. Church "father"... an apostate church doctrine.
JESUS HIMSELF said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." Jn. 5:24.
Jesus never taught water baptism for salvation, nor infant baptism. NOR were any of the apostles ever baptized in scripture.
Rom. 1:16 - "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
1 Pet. 3:21 - "The LIKE FIGURE whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
Again baptism INTO CHRIST at the time of salvation by FAITH.
Col. 2:12-13 "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses"
This shows water baptism WAS a SYMBOL of His death & burial.
Rom. 6:5 - "For if we have been planted together IN THE LIKENESS OF his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection"
Again, a symbol.
And again, as I posted before these two verses is referring to baptism INTO CHRIST by FAITH (salvation):
Titus 3:5 - "Not by works of righteousness which WE HAVE DONE, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost"
Jn. 3:5 - "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"
If you look up the other verses with water, the water is referring to the Word of God. So again, this verse is speaking of being baptized INTO CHRIST by FAITH at the time of salvation.
Eph. 5:26
1 Jn. 5:6
Rev. 21:6
Rev. 22:1
Rev. 22:17
Dear Danielle,
Regeneration in John 3
These different ways of talking about being "born again" describe effects of baptism, which Christ speaks of in John 3:5 as being "born of water and the Spirit." In Greek, this phrase is, literally, "born of water and Spirit," indicating one birth of water-and-Spirit, rather than "born of water and of the Spirit," as though it meant two different births—one birth of water and one birth of the Spirit.
In the water-and-Spirit rebirth that takes place at baptism, the repentant sinner is transformed from a state of sin to the state of grace. Peter mentioned this transformation from sin to grace when he exhorted people to "be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).
The context of Jesus’ statements in John 3 makes it clear that he was referring to water baptism. Shortly before Jesus teaches Nicodemus about the necessity and regenerating effect of baptism, he himself was baptized by John the Baptist, and the circumstances are striking: Jesus goes down into the water, and as he is baptized, the heavens open, the Holy Spirit descends upon him in the form of a dove, and the voice of God the Father speaks from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son" (cf. Matthew 3:13–17; Mark 1:9–11; Luke 3:21–22; John 1:30–34).
This scene gives us a graphic depiction of what happens at baptism: We are baptized with water, symbolizing our dying with Christ (Romans 6:3) and our rising with Christ to the newness of life (Romans 6:4–5); we receive the gift of sanctifying grace and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27); and we are adopted as God’s sons (Romans 8:15–17).
We've both already covered all of this. Obviously neither one of us is going to budge on this. I believe what I wrote to be the truth, just as you do.
I do want to point out one thing though. You said, "In Greek, this phrase is, literally, "born of water and Spirit," indicating one birth of water-and-Spirit" (Jn. 3:5)
This is not completely true:
"be born" -
γεννάω
gennaō
ghen-nah'-o
to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive,
So this CAN MEAN FIGURATIVELY
"of" -
ἐκ, ἐξ
ek ex
ek, ex
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; literally or figuratively; direct or remote):
So again, could be FIGURATIVELY
"water" -
ὕδωρ, ὕδατος
hudōr hudatos
hoo'-dor, hoo'-dat-os, etc.
water (as if rainy) literally or figuratively: - water.
Again, could be FIGURATIVELY
"the Spirit" -
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.
So you can not prove that this is LITERALLY water that is saving the soul.
One last thing I would like to point out, is Jesus shed his blood on the cross for our eternity. Why would anybody need to PHYSICALLY DO something to add to what Jesus did? In other words, wasn't what Jesus did GOOD ENOUGH? We need to give Him a hand? So is your faith in the water for your salvation? Your faith can not be in the blood of Christ then, if you need the water to save you.
1 Cor. 1:13-18 says it all - " Did Paul die on the cross for you? No! Were you baptized in the name of Paul? No! I thank God I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius so that now no one can say you were baptized in my name.(I also baptized the family of Stephanas, but I do not remember that I baptized anyone else.) Christ did not send me to baptize people but to preach the Good News. And he sent me to preach the Good News without using words of human wisdom so that the cross[a] of Christ would not lose its power.
Christ Is God's Power and Wisdom
The teaching about the cross is foolishness to those who are being lost, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God"
He was sent to PREACH THE WORD because it is the message of Christ & Him Crucified that has the POWER to SAVE by FAITH!
And why do you refute all of the other verses about believing in Him for salvation & faith in Him for salvatation? There are hundreds of verses about faith/salvation... and only a small handfull concerning baptism. Shouldn't we take ALL of the verses together to come up with the proper interpretation?
Ok. I am done. You can continue if you want. I am firm standing on this being the truth.
...so have at it, the floor is yours :)
Dear Danielle,
Is Half of The Story Sufficient For Salvation?
How many sides are there to a story? If you say two, then you are wrong. If you had one side and I had one side that would make two sides. However, there is a third side, the side of truth.
Rule # 1... One half of truth does not a truth make. Neither does one half of a story make the full story. No intelligent person can hear one side of a story and decide which side has the truth.
Both sides have to be heard, then analysed, and then a decision has to be made as to which side (if either) has a valid story, and after that, the right side(s), or truth side, can be determined.
This thinking holds true for discerning what Holy Scripture tells us.
Throughout the Bible there are double standards, yet the fundamentalist thinking shows only one standard, or one side of the story, or only one half of the truth.
Their thinking is in violation of rule # 1. With only one half of truth, you do not have truth. Anything less than the whole truth is error.
In the following examples, side 'A' is the first side, side 'B' is the second, and side 'C' is the right, or truth side.
Example # 1... Sola Scriptura...? Only the Bible. Fundamentalist thinking is that the Bible is sufficient and nothing else is needed for salvation.
First of all, in order to believe in the 'Bible Only' philosophy, you have to show that Scripture says it. Is that not true? The doctrine of 'Sola Scriptura' is not to be found in Scripture.
A. Tradition is condemned in many places in Scripture, such as Job 22:15, Matthew 15:6, Mark 7:3-13, Galatians 1:14, Colossians 2:8, 1Timothy 1:4, Titus 1:14, and 1Peter 1:18. Look at these verses and grasp their meaning.
They all address 'vain' human traditions and are rightly condemned. This is one half of the truth.
B. Tradition is supported in more places in Scripture than it is condemned. Study Isaiah 59:21, Luke 1:2, 2:19,51, Luke 10:16, 2Thessalonians 2:14-15 - "Stand firm and hold the traditions you have learned..", 2Timothy 1:13,2:2, 1Peter 1:25, 1Jn 1:1,2:24, 2Jn 1:12, Revelation 12:17,19:10.
These are different traditions than mentioned in 'A'. These are the Traditions of GOD, or 'Apostolic' Tradition.' Again, this is only half of the truth.
C. The truth is, yes, we do condemn the vain tradition of men, as shown in 'A', and we must keep the Tradition of GOD, as shown in 'B'.
Thus we have half the truth in 'A', and the other half in 'B', and combined we have the full truth.
The false doctrine of Sola Scriptura adds A and B together and puts the total in A, rejecting all of tradition. A+B=C.
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